Spencer Pratt on Fixing LA: Wildfires, Homelessness, Corruption & the Fight to Take It Back

Source: Authorized transcript of an All-In interview with Spencer Pratt. The interviewer/host is not identified by name in the supplied transcript, so this record refers to that speaker as the host. The discussion takes place during Pratt’s campaign for mayor of Los Angeles and follows a recent mayoral debate. The interview centers on the Palisades fire and loss of Pratt’s home, his accusations against Los Angeles leadership, and his proposed governing agenda.

Transcript quality: The source contains extensive caption duplication—many sentences appear three times—plus fragmented sentences, misspellings, and apparent phonetic errors in names, agencies, locations and policy terms. The duplication has been removed below without removing substantive repetition. Uncertain names or phrases are retained and marked [transcript unclear] rather than silently corrected. The underlying file contains 4,116 transcript lines.

Verification status: This Stage 1 record describes what the speakers said. No factual claims, accusations, statistics, legal assertions, polling claims or policy claims have been independently verified. Particularly serious allegations concerning public officials, NGOs, corruption, fires, deaths, document destruction and criminal conduct are explicitly attributed to Pratt or the host.

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The host opened by telling Pratt that his debate performance had generated significant private and online reaction and that many people were surprised by how prepared and fact-focused he appeared.

Pratt said he wished the debate had lasted two or three hours because, in his view, there were many additional failures by his opponents that he did not have time to address. He characterized his opponents as “pathological liars” and argued that the audience response came from seeing someone confront politicians using what he regarded as facts and truth.

He said a group he described affectionately as “Democrat moms” who support him had urged him to remain “calm, cool, and collected.” He therefore deliberately refrained from interrupting opponents even when he believed they were lying.

Asked how he prepared, Pratt said months of adversarial media appearances had effectively trained him. He argued that interviews with him tend to become arguments, whereas Mayor Karen Bass and Councilwoman “Ramen” [transcript unclear] receive less hostile questioning. Because of that perceived double standard, he said he has learned to make his factual preparation “bulletproof,” down to knowing who was present at events and other granular details.

The host characterized this as Pratt being held to a higher standard. Pratt agreed.

Pratt also described calling a lawyer named Peter, who he said represents him in litigation against the city, state and “LAWP” [transcript unclear; likely agency acronym]. Pratt asked how the lawyer remained calm while arguing with people he regarded as dishonest. According to Pratt, Peter replied: “Spencer, I always have the truth.” Pratt said he carried that advice into the debate.

When the host asked Pratt to describe the fire and evacuation, Pratt first argued that the emergency-warning system had failed before the fire itself.

He said his son had pneumonia, meaning Pratt had been awake repeatedly at night checking the child’s temperature and spending considerable time on his phone. Despite that, he said he had not understood that an unusually dangerous combination of dry weather and wind was approaching. He presented his own lack of awareness as evidence that residents had not been warned strongly enough.

On the morning of January 7, Pratt said he was following his normal routine: making espresso and preparing to post himself dancing to Taylor Swift’s “Look What You Made Me Do” on Snapchat, something he said he had done since the Reputation album was released.

His nanny then came running down the street with his two-year-old and reported that workers up the street had seen a fire on the hill.

Pratt emphasized that wildfire itself was not an unforeseeable phenomenon in the area. He said he grew up in Los Angeles, had experienced fires over roughly 30 years, and noted that friends had fought a fire in Malibu about three weeks earlier. He said he had even discussed with his wife Heidi the possibility of establishing their own rudimentary fire brigade with a truck and hose. Santa Ana winds, he argued, were also a familiar regional hazard.

Pratt ran to a nearby hill where he said he had hiked regularly for nine years. From there he saw smoke coming from the Highlands area. He said the source was associated with a “Loachman” or later “lockman” fire [transcript unclear], which he claimed had begun seven days earlier and had continued smoldering.

He FaceTimed Heidi and advised her to pack and take the children to his parents’ house in the Palisades as a precaution. She took basic items such as diapers and children’s clothes.

Pratt stayed behind. He described himself as confident rather than panicked because he assumed the taxes paid by residents funded a fire response capable of protecting the neighborhood. In retrospect he called that assumption naive.

He also believed his location had unusually good fire protection because a reservoir was situated near his home.

Pratt said a roughly five-million-gallon Palisades reservoir was near his house and that firefighters had conducted drills there almost every two weeks. He recalled having to move vehicles so hoses could be connected and said the reservoir included a place where helicopters could collect water.

He distinguished that reservoir from a “San Andreas reservoir” [transcript unclear], which he said Mayor Bass had discussed during the debate.

Pratt alleged that Bass falsely characterized a reservoir as being intended principally for drinking water. He claimed historical reporting from the Los Angeles Times showed it had been built for wildfire protection and had helicopter dip sites.

He further alleged that “Janice Quinion” / “Janice Quinionz” [transcript unclear], whom he identified as an LADWP leader, had drained the reservoir in June 2024. Pratt said he had not realized it was empty and had filmed himself expecting firefighting helicopters to arrive.

He estimated—explicitly as a guess—that Pacific Palisades might contribute almost one quarter of Los Angeles city taxes. Because of the neighborhood’s resources and tax contribution, he said he could not imagine authorities allowing the entire community to burn.

That confidence is why, he said, he did not properly pack or prepare for the destruction of his house.

Pratt said he directly called the fire department because he saw only one truck and was concerned about dry brush that could carry the fire toward homes. According to him, the response was: “We have no assets available.”

His father came to the property and attempted to wet the hillside with a hose. Eventually Pratt told him to leave, still expecting professional firefighters to arrive.

Meanwhile, Pratt’s wife and children had gone to his parents’ home. The danger then changed as the fire crossed from “Tesco Canyon” [transcript unclear], prompting Pratt’s older sister to call and insist that the children leave that location as well.

Pratt repeatedly emphasized that he heard no emergency sirens. He said he did not see sheriff’s deputies, LAPD officers or emergency vehicles moving through the neighborhood ordering evacuations. He argued that this absence materially affected his perception of danger: had he heard sirens, he would have begun packing or reacted differently.

He remained until approximately 5–6 p.m., when the fire came down the hill.

Pratt challenged claims that exceptionally high winds made the response impossible. He said that from his position at the top of the Palisades, adjacent to a state park, he did not experience what he considered “scary” wind and claimed speeds there did not exceed approximately 40 mph.

He said CBS News had recently published reporting from a journalist who had been present and which, in Pratt’s view, vindicated his debate statements. The host also noted that planes were flying. Pratt acknowledged that it was windy but maintained that conditions were not what opponents had portrayed.

Pratt said he spoke to “Chief Bobby Garcia” [verify identity/title] of the U.S. Forest Service about failures during the response. According to Pratt, Garcia said the original fire was not “made skinny” [transcript unclear firefighting terminology] and explained that crews should attack a fire from both sides.

Pratt alleged that the official after-action report had been edited multiple times by Mayor Bass. He acknowledged that Bass denies this and said the Los Angeles Times stood by reporting on the matter.

He further alleged that Bass failed to request fixed-wing air support because she was in Africa and that her deputy mayor, who he said would otherwise have been responsible, was under house arrest. He therefore claimed Los Angeles city government never called in fixed-wing support to drop water, while Los Angeles County, Cal Fire and the U.S. Forest Service did respond.

These are Pratt’s accusations and require independent verification.

Pratt said he learned the full extent of his loss by watching his security-camera feeds from his phone while trapped in traffic near the interchange of the 10 and 405 freeways.

He described watching individual rooms burn. Most memorably, he said flames beneath his son’s bed formed the shape of a heart, which he experienced as spiritually significant.

At the same time, he could not reach his father, who had been trying to save his own home on the bluffs. Pratt said the fear that his father might be dying eclipsed his concern about his own burning house.

He repeatedly called 911 and said he was told that emergency personnel could not be sent to his father’s address. Pratt stressed that, in his view, there were numerous possible routes to the property.

He then connected his experience to the people who died in the fire. Pratt asserted that if relatives or neighbors of the 12 people he said burned alive were calling 911, they would likewise have been told that emergency personnel could not reach them. This was an inference Pratt drew from his own 911 interaction, not evidence independently established in the interview.

His father ultimately escaped. Pratt recalled asking whether it had been possible to get out, and his father told him he had been able to drive away.

Pratt said the episode fundamentally reordered his priorities: his father’s survival mattered more than the destruction of his property.

The host asked how Pratt moved from personal devastation into action.

Pratt recalled that he and Heidi had been financially successful in 2009 and had spent millions of dollars producing her pop album with prominent writers and producers, but did not retain enough money to market it effectively.

The album’s 15th anniversary fell on January 10, three days after their house burned.

Pratt said virtually everything he owned or had invested for his sons had been in the house. His immediate reaction was that they had no money and were financially finished.

Because he was receiving messages about the album anniversary, he went on TikTok Live and asked viewers to stream or buy Heidi’s album. He said people around the world responded, putting the album at No. 1 in perhaps 12 countries. He also claimed it became the first 15-year-old album to reach No. 1 on a Billboard chart; the exact chart and record require verification.

The unexpected success temporarily pulled his attention away from the trauma and toward rebuilding. Pratt estimated the renewed music activity generated approximately $150,000, but argued that equivalent popularity under the economics of the 2006 music business might have produced millions.

He contrasted his own focus on the unexpected success with Heidi’s practical attention to relocating the family and finding new schools for their children.

Pratt said the family had been forced onto the California FAIR Plan after Farmers allegedly dropped their coverage despite eight years of payments. He said the available insurance money was insufficient to rebuild.

Once the initial album momentum faded, Pratt began asking why his house had burned.

He contacted a friend whose father, Pratt said, had successfully fought Edison in litigation arising from the “Camp Fire at Paradise”—though Pratt himself expressed uncertainty about the exact fire. Pratt asked for representation because he wanted to sue the city, the state and “L…” [transcript cuts off/unclear].

The host initially referred to roughly 5,000 homes burning; Pratt corrected him to 7,000. The host then reformulated this as roughly 7,000 structures/homes while acknowledging uncertainty.

Asked why Pratt became the person publicly fighting after the disaster, Pratt said his previous experience as a widely disliked or attacked media personality had trained him to withstand public criticism.

He accused Governor Gavin “Newsome” [source spelling], Newsom’s social-media operation and the Los Angeles Times of labeling his position a conspiracy theory because they attributed the fire primarily to climate change and wind.

Pratt then claimed that on the day of the debate, judges rejected an appeal by the state and city of Los Angeles in litigation relating to alleged negligence in the “palace fire” [transcript unclear; likely fire name], allowing discovery to proceed. The procedural details and actual ruling require verification.

Pratt said LAFD whistleblowers began approaching him once he publicly pursued the issue.

He alleged that they told him firefighters had been ordered to leave a smoldering “lockman” fire [transcript unclear] on January 1.

He further alleged that whistleblowers told him Mayor Bass was fighting a battalion chief in connection with edits to the after-action report. Pratt characterized that situation as “Obstruction of justice.” That is Pratt’s allegation and legal characterization, not an established finding in the source.

He also said whistleblowers told him a fire chief had fought Bass over a $17 million issue and warned her that Angelenos would not be safe.

Pratt said receiving this information made him feel that he was no longer merely a fringe social-media voice and reinforced his confidence that his suspicions were legitimate.

His summary of the psychological shift was: “Man, I’m not crazy.”

Pratt said he initially looked for someone else to challenge Bass.

When he saw no major opponent entering, he called Rick Caruso and asked whether Caruso planned to run. Pratt said he feared Bass would otherwise win outright on June 2 with 51%.

According to Pratt, Caruso told him: “Go after Bass.” Pratt interpreted that as confirmation Caruso would not run.

Pratt clarified that he was already moving toward taking action but would not have run against Caruso if Caruso had entered.

The host said Pratt’s campaign ads were breaking through in an unusually emotional way and that some observers viewed the campaign as a movement rather than ordinary politics. He asked whether Pratt’s campaign had produced all of the ads or whether people such as “Charlie Curran” [verify] were independently creating material.

Pratt said an advertisement contrasting Bass’s house, “Nitia Ramen’s” [transcript unclear] multimillion-dollar mansion and Pratt’s Airstream had “broke every ad record in history.” This is an unverified campaign-performance claim.

He explained that campaign material bearing his name is legally attributable to his campaign, while independent grassroots advertisements without his name are not legally his.

He confirmed that supporters outside his formal campaign were creating ads. The host said those ads appeared to be supplying emotional energy to the movement; Pratt attributed the response to what he called common sense.

Pratt resisted efforts to place him inside a conventional party identity.

He said he did not run because he wanted to become a politician or represent a political party. He said he ran because he personally experienced what he regarded as catastrophic city-government failure.

He described himself instead as “the citizen” and “the angry taxpayer.”

He said Democrats and Republicans could both support him. He added that communists and socialists were the only constituencies whose support he did not want.

The host invoked a statement attributed to John Adams—“Public virtue cannot exist in a nation without private virtue”—and connected it to an ideal of citizenship in which a person sacrifices personal interests for public service.

The host also invoked Thomas Jefferson in arguing that political office should be a temporary “tour of duty,” rather than a lifelong career. He contrasted that ideal with the modern professional political class and compared Pratt’s outsider appeal with Donald Trump’s.

Pratt said he identified more strongly with “Cenitis” / “Citus” [transcript unclear], described as a farmer who temporarily accepted great political or military power, completed his duty and returned to his family.

Pratt said he initially thought four years as mayor would be enough but now believes he would need two terms—eight years—to make Los Angeles the “number one city in the world” and permanently establish his reforms.

He described his Airstream not as his new home but as his “forward operating base” and framed the campaign as a “battle against good and evil.”

Pratt claimed that roughly seven people die on Los Angeles streets every day despite billions of dollars in public spending.

He argued that homelessness in Los Angeles is principally a drug problem and claimed that 90% of the population he was discussing consists of people with drug addiction. That figure was asserted without sourcing in the transcript.

His proposed sequence is:

• mandatory treatment for people suffering addiction;
• sufficient treatment beds;
• purpose-built facilities rather than concentrating beds in existing neighborhoods or near schools;
• comprehensive services in settings that he considers humane and attractive.

He cited a friend, “Matt Hes” [transcript unclear], who he said operates a high-quality facility in Bentonville serving veterans. He also vaguely referenced a billionaire in Italy who had built something similar for people with addiction.

Pratt envisioned large nature-based campuses providing extensive services rather than what he called prison-like concrete facilities and 250-square-foot cells.

He claimed Los Angeles is already spending more than $25 billion, meaning, in his view, superior facilities should be financially possible.

He proposed separating populations within the system: veterans in one area; single mothers, children and families in another; and people he described as hardened criminal drug addicts in another.

He contrasted this with the current NGO system, which he accused of profiting while distributing pipes, needles and Narcan and allowing people to overdose repeatedly.

The host asked Pratt to explain alleged NGO corruption.

He said claims about NGO waste are often dismissed as “MAGA talking points” and argued that this label can serve as a rhetorical mechanism for avoiding uncomfortable factual claims instead of evaluating them.

The host estimated that Los Angeles had increased homelessness spending roughly tenfold over a decade while the homeless population approximately doubled and conditions visibly deteriorated.

These were the host’s estimates and framing, not independently verified figures.

Pratt disputed official homelessness statistics.

He referred to Mayor Bass saying homelessness was down 17% and said RAND Corporation numbers instead suggested a 30% increase. Both figures and what populations/time periods they refer to require checking.

He argued that annual street counts are structurally unreliable because counters cannot inspect every tent, bridge, bush or sewer.

His broader conclusion was that no one knows the true population accurately.

The transcript contains the phrase “homelessness 200x,” which appears garbled and should not be interpreted without checking the original recording.

Pratt said his first direct experience with what he regarded as NGO dysfunction came after a fire-relief fundraiser raised an amount that is garbled in the transcript as “Palestund million” [transcript unclear].

He said fire victims were messaging him claiming they had not received direct assistance.

Pratt said he went to Washington, asked senators to investigate and that “we open up the case.”

He said FireAid subsequently issued a legal letter defending its distribution practices. According to Pratt, the letter said “several” NGOs had given directly to fire victims.

Pratt said more than 200 organizations were on the distribution list for approximately $100 million. He emphasized that “several” ordinarily means fewer than ten and argued that even the defense therefore indicated very limited direct giving.

He further said he personally did not believe even those organizations had necessarily distributed funds directly. He questioned claims that gift cards had been provided, saying fire victims communicating with him had not reported receiving even a $500 card.

He concluded from this that NGOs can take enormous sums of relief money and, in his words, “just steal it.” This is a serious accusation by Pratt and requires rigorous verification and response from the organizations involved before publication as anything other than an attributed allegation.

Pratt said a person he called Samantha from the “Integrity Project” helped educate him about NGO finances. He described her as a Democratic mother and lawyer in Westwood whose husband is also a lawyer.

He said she created a small charity after using significant amounts of her own money to address problems in her neighborhood.

Pratt then discussed an organization transcribed variously as “Wineart,” “Weineart” and “Weart” [transcript unclear].

He alleged:

• senior citizens were removed from a housing property;
• the organization’s audit was late;
• it was receiving hundreds of millions of dollars;
• one building went onto the market for $11 million;
• six days later the city provided approximately $28–29 million for the organization to buy that same property;
• years later nobody had been housed there;
• construction was being billed at approximately $750 per square foot, whereas developers Pratt consulted said approximately $250 per square foot would be appropriate;
• contractors or shell companies were involved in alleged kickbacks;
• despite public funding, ownership of the property remained with the organization rather than taxpayers.

Pratt also referred to a “Shelby house” [transcript unclear] project in San Pedro, approximately 600 feet from a school. He said senior citizens were being removed and the building would house people he described as hardened criminals. He placed the project cost around $80 million.

All allegations require documentary verification and an opportunity for the named organizations and city to respond.

Pratt argued that public grants can be assembled into projects that appear reasonable in aggregate but become extreme on a per-person basis. He gave an example of an 80-person housing project costing roughly $700,000 per resident.

He alleged that some NGO executives make million-dollar salaries and others below them make approximately $500,000.

He also claimed there is no meaningful requirement that some funded organizations actually house people.

Regarding California’s Homekey program, Pratt said state funding can become unavailable if a city requires residents to abstain from drugs. The exact Homekey rules and whether this accurately describes “housing first” requirements need verification.

The host explained his understanding of a 501(c)(3) organization as something relatively inexpensive and straightforward to establish, then suggested a bad actor might use such an entity to access poorly supervised government funds.

He asked what incentive elected officials or bureaucrats would have to tolerate such arrangements.

Pratt offered two explanations.

First, without invoking corruption, NGOs allow government leaders to say they are providing housing and services and to outsource the appearance of solving a difficult problem.

Second, Pratt acknowledged a more conspiratorial possibility involving organizations supporting campaigns or PACs. He himself described that avenue as more “fringe.”

Despite that qualification, Pratt then broadly stated: “I think they’re all criminals.”

He claimed sources in the Justice Department had told him city officials would eventually face consequences. The host suggested corrupt transfers may occur through indirect goods, services or other mechanisms rather than simple cash transfers.

These were allegations and speculation, not established findings.

Pratt said he had met the IRS criminal-investigation team six times.

He proposed bringing investigators in during his first week as mayor and auditing every NGO receiving city money.

He then alleged that City Hall insiders had told him documents were currently being shredded.

Pratt expressed confidence that investigators could reconstruct wrongdoing even where documents had been destroyed.

The claim that documents are being shredded is an unverified allegation of potentially criminal conduct and requires particularly careful verification.

The host asked why Bass remained competitive if voters viewed the fire as a leadership failure.

Pratt argued that Bass was actually extraordinarily weak. He claimed she was polling at approximately 20%, which he described as the lowest level in history for a Los Angeles incumbent.

He interpreted that number as meaning approximately 80% of the city did not approve of her performance.

He said Councilwoman “Ramen” [transcript unclear] entered the mayoral race roughly one hour before filing closed because she and the Democratic Socialists of America believed Pratt would defeat Bass.

Pratt alleged that the strategy was for Raman to present herself as an alternative Democrat so Pratt would weaken Bass and Raman could then advance.

He noted that Raman had endorsed Bass only two weeks earlier and said Bass had previously canvassed for Raman when Raman risked losing her council seat.

These strategic claims were Pratt’s interpretation.

Pratt rejected the description of the Palisades disaster as an unprecedented wind-driven event.

He cited fires transcribed as the “Bair fire” and “Mandaville Canyon fire” [both names unclear] as historical precedents.

He also dismissed conventional polling as poorly suited to his coalition. He argued that his supporters are unlikely to answer spam calls and are increasingly unwilling to speak to strangers in public because they feel unsafe.

Therefore, he said, published polls should not be treated as predictive of his support.

The host raised the rise of explicitly socialist politics in American cities and referred to Bass’s past connections with an organization in Cuba.

Pratt said Bass had been a member of the “Vener Ramos brigade” [transcript unclear] and had traveled to Cuba approximately 20 times.

He then alleged that while he had been a reality television personality, Bass had been “training with terrorists that would later bomb the capital.” He further alleged that she denounced communism only when she was being considered for the vice presidency.

These are extremely serious assertions by Pratt. The transcript provides no supporting evidence and they must not be presented as fact without independent sourcing.

The host asked why voters in cities including Seattle and New York appear willing to elect self-described socialists and why similar politics might appeal in Los Angeles.

Pratt said he does not believe many voters consciously understand the ideological implications. His diagnosis was tribal politics: people primarily vote against the opposing team rather than examining the substance of local candidates.

He argued that national political identity has contaminated municipal government.

In his view, a city government should be judged on simple functions:

• safe streets;
• functioning street lights;
• repaired potholes;
• usable sidewalks.

Pratt said promises of free money and lower costs attract voters, but argued that city government cannot directly lower the price of goods.

He told an anecdote about “Rafa,” a Venezuelan man he said manages several Dodgers players. According to Pratt, Rafa approached him at an event, said he had fled Venezuelan socialism and would not allow his children to experience the same thing in Los Angeles. Pratt invited him to campaign and knock on doors.

Pratt’s economic answer was not primarily to distribute money but to increase business activity and city revenue so residents have more income and opportunities.

Pratt argued that Los Angeles should be one of the wealthiest and most economically productive cities in the world.

When critics ask how he would balance the budget, he responds that the city should be generating substantially more revenue rather than assuming permanent scarcity.

His deliberately exaggerated formulation was that Los Angeles should have “money shooting out of ATMs.”

He linked revenue growth to allowing businesses to operate effectively, which in turn depends on restoring public safety.

Pratt claimed Los Angeles had lost more than 100 restaurants, not because their food was poor but because visible drug use and street disorder made customers unwilling to go out.

He said this behavior was driving greater reliance on Uber Eats and DoorDash.

He relayed an anecdote from a lawyer and mother working downtown who allegedly told him employees in her building were not permitted to leave because of safety concerns and had to order food inside.

He connected this to restaurant closures around downtown.

For Pratt, public safety is therefore not merely a policing issue but the prerequisite for restaurants, offices, tourism and broader urban commerce.

Pratt rejected statements by Bass and Raman that crime was declining.

He acknowledged a falling murder rate but said that was part of a national trend rather than something Los Angeles leadership could claim credit for.

More broadly, he asserted that recorded crime is lower partly because residents have given up calling 911.

To illustrate this, he recounted an anecdote he heard at lunch: a woman on Wilshire Boulevard near the federal/FBI building was allegedly punched in the chest by a person Pratt described as a drug addict. A bystander intervened. The alleged attacker then struck cars with a PVC pipe and attempted to remove a bicycle from a bus.

According to Pratt’s retelling, 911 treated the situation casually until the caller said the attacker was approaching him personally. Police eventually arrived but initially said there were no remaining witnesses.

Pratt said police officers he speaks with want to enforce existing laws but are constrained by political or administrative authorities.

Pratt claimed law enforcement is discouraged from issuing citations to people without an address because doing so is considered “culturally insensitive.”

He connected that claim to graphic allegations that dogs on Los Angeles streets are being abused, tortured, mutilated, sexually assaulted and burned.

Pratt said some incidents have been filmed.

He named someone transcribed as “Stacy Danes” [transcript unclear], whom he described as having headed animal control or animal services. He alleged that the mayor’s office instructed the agency not to pursue people without addresses because doing so would be culturally insensitive.

These graphic claims and alleged official directives require verification.

Pratt said critics call him an “angry white guy.”

He rejected the racial framing and said anger cuts across race, gender and identity.

His argument was that anyone who lives in Los Angeles, pays taxes and experiences failing public services has reason to be angry.

The host said the All-In Summit is held in downtown Los Angeles and attracts attendees from approximately 60 countries.

He said the upcoming September event would be the summit’s final year downtown and that it would not return, attributing that decision to conditions in the area.

He said international visitors arrive and react with alarm to what they see downtown.

Pratt responded that the problem is no longer confined to Skid Row but has spread through the Valley, Westwood, Hollywood and the Palisades.

Pratt described an incident near Palisades Elementary School and his son’s Methodist preschool—the same preschool Pratt himself attended.

He said a woman repeatedly cleaned or exposed her genital area in front of children at approximately 7:45 a.m.

He said residents called LAPD, officers would ask her to stop, and she would move down the street and defecate near Joe’s Barber Shop.

Pratt used the anecdote to argue that conditions once associated with Skid Row had reached affluent residential neighborhoods as well.

This anecdote was not independently corroborated within the interview.

The host discussed San Francisco and a mayor transcribed as “Mayor Lur” [transcript unclear], whom he described as an old friend who had improved conditions by arresting offenders and enforcing laws.

The host claimed car break-ins had fallen 87% and that mass shoplifting had declined.

He argued that simply enforcing existing laws gets a city “90% of the way there” and requires political will and competent management rather than a miracle.

Pratt then said real-estate executive Victor Coleman had similarly told him that San Francisco’s mayor lacked prior experience running a city but had succeeded through enforcement.

Pratt relayed another quote from an unnamed prominent police chief: “Once you start putting handcuffs on people, watch how many people leave.”

Pratt said that during his first two or three weeks in office he would post signs throughout the city announcing that public nakedness, illegal drug use, robbery and animal abuse would no longer be tolerated.

He would use that initial period as a warning so people understood enforcement was about to change.

He predicted that some people engaging in illegal conduct would leave voluntarily once they believed laws would actually be enforced.

After the warning period, enforcement would begin and, Pratt predicted, streets would recover quickly.

He also proposed bringing in the CDC because he believes encampments contain serious infectious diseases. He said encampments and streets should be swabbed and thoroughly cleaned because people are living amid feces, drug activity and other dangerous conditions.

The host challenged Pratt directly on his lack of experience overseeing tens of thousands of employees.

Pratt acknowledged that he has never run the country’s second-largest city.

His answer was recruitment.

He said highly accomplished people are approaching him at lunches, dinners and meetings and offering to pause their businesses and work for the city for $1 per year.

He claimed experts had told him technology and algorithms could “100x” city bureaucracy/building-development performance.

He said he had met approximately 10 billionaires in the previous week who were prepared to help rebuild Los Angeles.

Pratt said his relevant quality is humility: he knows what he does not know and would surround himself with people who have run larger organizations.

He compared Los Angeles’s approximately $15 billion budget with executives he says manage organizations with $50 billion budgets.

He also said he already had an unnamed prospective deputy mayor but could not reveal that person because of fear of retaliation.

That deputy mayor’s priority, he said, would be ensuring laws are enforced.

Pratt argued that every other economic or operational reform depends on safety and law enforcement. He said investors will not put substantial capital into Los Angeles until they trust the city to protect ordinary residents.

The host cited a series of LAUSD figures:

• approximately $23,000 spent per student;
• approximately $101,000 average teacher salary;
• a ranking of roughly 170th among California school districts;
• approximately 46% of students meeting or exceeding English standards;
• approximately 37% meeting or exceeding math standards.

The host argued that poor educational and economic opportunity may leave young people more receptive to socialism or communism.

Pratt responded from his experience as a parent. He said his son attended an LAUSD charter associated with “PAL” [transcript unclear], yet parents were constantly fundraising for books, instruction and additional teachers despite the system’s high per-student spending.

His first question, therefore, was: Where is the money going?

Pratt said the common issue across schools, the fire department, police and other city functions is that spending is insufficiently transparent.

He proposed comprehensive audits to determine where taxpayer money actually goes.

He said every dollar of Los Angeles tax money should appear on simple, “CliffNotes-level” dashboards showing both spending and results.

He framed accountability and transparency as central features of a Pratt administration.

He also argued that parents need hope and agency if young people are to reject socialism and communism.

Pratt said some parents were removing children from public schools because of cultural messaging, including what he described as the disappearance of the Pledge of Allegiance and a decline in positive messages about America.

He called for a return to the patriotic culture he associates with his grandparents’ World War II generation.

As an example of questionable spending, Pratt claimed fire stations were being charged approximately $250,000 for doors and $50,000 for refrigerators.

The host relayed a friend’s complaint about a proposed $3 billion convention-center expansion.

Pratt said a dead body had recently been found in bushes outside the convention center and questioned the logic of spending billions on expansion while people were dying on surrounding streets.

He said his original instinct had been to cancel the project.

His position evolved as his larger economic vision developed. If Los Angeles became dramatically safer and attracted more commerce, Pratt said a major convention center could become valuable.

His preferred solution would be a private-public partnership rather than relying entirely on city money.

Pratt claimed an unnamed billionaire had offered substantial private funding.

According to Pratt, the person said his family had previously given $300 million to a New York project and would provide $500 million to bring “fund” or “fun” [transcript unclear] back to Los Angeles.

Pratt asked whether he could identify the donor publicly; the donor allegedly declined and wanted to remain anonymous.

Pratt used the anecdote to argue that private philanthropy could reduce the taxpayer cost of projects such as the convention center.

The transcript shifts between a $3 billion and $2 billion project figure; the actual cost proposal must be verified.

Pratt said he had not met with union leadership because major unions support Mayor Bass.

He nevertheless predicted unions would ultimately benefit from his administration because city revenue and employment would expand.

He argued that he did not need institutional union endorsements to win because his coalition included mothers and animal lovers across Los Angeles.

He repeatedly emphasized that women with children in neighborhoods across the city feel unsafe, regardless of official crime statistics.

Pratt predicted he would win 51% on June 2, eliminating the need for a November contest.

Asked what he would say when union leaders eventually sought meetings, Pratt said he would try to preserve desirable benefits while ensuring compensation remained financially defensible.

He said there might initially need to be a period of tighter spending.

He linked this again to his plan to recover money he believes is being wasted or “laundered” through homelessness NGOs.

Pratt argued that union raises should be evaluated against private-sector wage growth rather than automatically approved.

At the same time, he said police and firefighters must receive competitive compensation because Los Angeles cannot afford to lose them to places such as Laguna Beach, Newport Beach and “Norwich County” [transcript unclear].

He argued that some eye-catching public-safety salaries result from overtime created by staffing shortages. He defended highly paid firefighters in particular by saying they represent a small group working extraordinary schedules and sacrificing time with family.

The host summarized that unions were not Pratt’s enemy; Pratt agreed.

Pratt said rank-and-file firefighters and police officers support him even when union organizations publicly support Bass.

He claimed the LAFD union “for sure” supports him privately but is afraid of retaliation.

He similarly claimed LAPD members support him based on messages, calls and conversations he receives.

Pratt said he does not blame union leaders for maintaining relationships with the incumbent mayor because she currently influences their contracts and compensation.

He also claimed approximately 60% of firefighters fly in because they no longer live in California, in part because they consider it unsafe for their families.

He wants those workers to live locally again, both for civic reasons and because their spending and taxes would remain in the region.

The host described Hollywood as economically gutted compared with previous decades and noted that the industry once supported large numbers of direct and ancillary jobs.

He asked whether Hollywood could realistically be revived in Los Angeles given AI, YouTube, independent production and the decline of traditional broadcast/studio models.

Pratt said that at age 20 he became the youngest person to sell a reality show to Fox and the youngest executive producer to do so. He said he sold it to “Peter Churn” [transcript unclear], then co-chair of News Corp, and that David Foster was associated with the project.

He noted that Foster was due to host a campaign fundraiser for him, describing that as a full-circle moment.

Pratt said he recently called “Peter Churn/Churnin” [transcript unclear] and asked how a mayor could save Hollywood.

According to Pratt, Peter told him a mayor could not solve the larger industry economics, which would require state-level action, but could make Los Angeles the best city for:

• independent filmmakers;
• independent production;
• independent artists.

Pratt said his childhood and school friends are creators who have increasingly embraced independent production.

He wants city government to work much more actively with those productions—reducing fees, accelerating clearances, coordinating locations, using restaurants and local crews and effectively treating independent filming as economic-development infrastructure.

He criticized Bass for touting a reduction in the cost of filming at Griffith Observatory/“Conservatory” [transcript wording] from roughly $70,000 to “30” [unit unclear], saying incremental fee cuts are not enough.

He also claimed producers told him street filming sometimes requires paying gang members for security. His goal is to make crews confident they can take expensive camera equipment onto city streets without being robbed.

Pratt quoted Peter as telling him: “I’m always here to make you smarter, Spencer.”

The host agreed that independent production is expanding but said much of that growth is occurring outside Los Angeles. He contrasted independent ownership with large-studio or Netflix arrangements paying producers “cost plus 10%.”

Pratt said he had reached out to David Ellison’s team, “Ted Sranos” [transcript unclear] and other industry leaders.

He stressed that he does not want to abandon traditional studios.

He said a mayor should pressure the next governor to uncap production and post-production incentives so work remains in California rather than moving to the United Kingdom or Canada.

Pratt said Bass and Raman had approximately ten years of combined governing experience yet had failed to accomplish this.

His ideal is both a strong independent-production ecosystem and major films—he used Top Gun 3 as an example—being made in Los Angeles.

Asked about transportation, Pratt said he had visited the opening of the D Line partly to provoke or “troll” YIMBY activists.

He said public transportation can be attractive in theory but riders will not use it if trains and stations contain urine, feces, public nudity or open drug use.

Pratt said residents constantly send him photographs of city problems, joking that he had effectively become “311.”

His central transportation analogy was that Metro could connect all the way to the moon, but a parent still would not ride if someone were smoking fentanyl next to their child.

Pratt said he supports public transportation and dislikes traffic. His objection is sequencing: safety must precede system expansion.

He estimated that approximately 15% of the budget goes to Metro while only approximately 5% of people use it. He suggested that if the system became safe, usage could rise substantially.

He also called for fare enforcement and preventing turnstile jumping.

Pratt said clearing dangerous or abandoned areas downtown would free buildings and blocks for redevelopment while also reducing fires in vacant buildings that consume firefighting resources.

He mentioned 3D-printing technology and said he had met with an unnamed prominent architect whose team had already produced redevelopment plans that Newsom and Bass had not adopted.

Pratt rejected what he called high-density, SB79-related “prison-like structures.”

Instead, he wants Los Angeles to pursue beautiful architecture, including renewed Art Deco influence.

He said architects leave because construction can take approximately eight years and predicted they would return if permitting accelerated.

His aspirations became deliberately imaginative: he spoke of making downtown Los Angeles beautiful enough to rival Venice, creating canals, and even accommodating elevated or tunneled bicycle infrastructure.

His conclusion was that Los Angeles needs greater architectural creativity rather than merely more generic density.

The host pressed Pratt on whether a mayor actually has legal authority to overcome statutory permitting and design-review requirements.

Pratt said he had met a senior private-sector building expert who volunteered to head Los Angeles Building and Safety.

He said he wants to publicly identify a full team of experts and publish their biographies.

According to Pratt, this prospective official said the private sector already knows where city processes fail because developers repeatedly encounter the bottlenecks.

Pratt also cited an affordable-housing developer named Carlos. Pratt said Bass had announced a program intended to move projects through in six months, yet Carlos had been waiting approximately 2½ years.

According to Pratt, Carlos said good two-bedroom housing could be built for roughly $250 per square foot, versus projects costing approximately $750 per square foot.

Pratt said Carlos believed incentives sometimes reward developers for producing smaller “cells” and packing in more occupants rather than producing better housing.

Pratt also used his own Airstream as an example: he said it took LADWP weeks merely to run one electrical wire from a pole across the street.

The discussion moved to whether straightforward approvals could be automated.

Pratt referenced an initiative associated with Caruso in which plans meeting zoning requirements could receive much faster approval.

He argued that artificial intelligence and automated criteria checks could eliminate repetitive human review.

He contrasted this with a system in which applicants encounter one requirement at a time and repeatedly return for additional approvals.

His principle was that if a project meets clearly defined criteria, the system should issue an automatic or timed “green light.”

He acknowledged that he does not personally know every technical detail of city administration. His proposed leadership model is to define outcomes and bring in specialists who understand the process. The underlying transcript contains broken fragments in this portion and technical details should be checked against the recording before quotation.

Pratt returned to his criticism of “Janice Quinionz” [transcript unclear], whom he identified as LADWP leadership.

He alleged that two reservoirs had been drained before dry fire season without an adequate backup plan, tankers or contingency infrastructure.

He criticized the executive’s compensation, which he placed at more than $750,000 plus benefits.

Pratt argued that Los Angeles should recruit the best water, power, engineering and operational leaders nationally rather than rely on insiders simply because they already know City Hall.

His broader philosophy is that highly capable people will want to work in Los Angeles if the city becomes safe, clean and ambitious again.

Pratt said technology leaders he meets want Los Angeles to become a major global tech center.

He explicitly invited companies and workers in San Francisco, Marin and elsewhere to relocate.

His pitch was that Los Angeles has more physical space, beaches and room to build robotics, drones and other emerging industries.

He also promised cleaner coastal water, joking that residents should be able to swim without sewage contamination.

His aspiration was not merely to recover Los Angeles but to compete with Northern California as a technology hub.

The host emphasized Los Angeles’s character as a small-business city, citing Ventura Boulevard strip malls and multigenerational Armenian, Persian and Hispanic family businesses.

He asked what a mayor could do to speed permits for nail salons, coffee shops, stores and businesses often started by first- or second-generation immigrants.

Pratt responded with the example of a friend’s neighbor in Venice who bought a longstanding bodega.

He said the new owner had spent roughly a year navigating permits despite not planning to sell alcohol or food. According to Pratt, inspectors or regulators repeatedly required changes and then added new requirements.

He described the process as a maze and said it should be radically streamlined.

Pratt said the recurring flaw across transportation, sanitation, permitting and other departments is lack of accountability.

His formulation was that employees and organizations are paid whether they succeed or fail.

He also relayed a criticism of FilmLA’s nonprofit structure: someone had argued to him that an organization responsible for facilitating production should have a stronger economic incentive to increase filming.

Pratt used that example to reinforce his belief that current public and quasi-public structures can become indifferent to results because funding continues regardless of performance.

Pratt criticized Bass for traveling to Ghana and attending what he called a cocktail party while Los Angeles services deteriorated.

He then discussed “Juan from Clean LA,” an Ecuadorian immigrant who independently cleans trash from Los Angeles streets.

According to Pratt, Juan said his country of origin was cleaner and that Los Angeles conditions made him question raising his family there.

Pratt said Juan began cleaning streets himself because, in his view, official sanitation workers lacked accountability.

According to Pratt’s retelling, Juan alleged that trash trucks sometimes simply scatter collected trash back into streets and that employees sleep in vehicles.

Pratt asked whether Juan would help run sanitation under a Pratt administration.

He said Juan estimated the existing sanitation operation at around $1 billion and claimed he could provide the service for $500 million.

Pratt immediately framed that as a potential $500 million taxpayer saving.

These estimates were conversational claims, not a costed government proposal.

The host suggested that many routine approvals could simply be automatically stamped rather than pushed through lengthy delegated review.

Pratt agreed.

His preferred model is criteria-based: if an application satisfies published requirements within a defined period, it receives an automatic green light.

He said Los Angeles should see so much construction during his eight years that residents become annoyed by the number of cranes.

He compared the desired pace to rapid infrastructure construction in China and joked that his children may barely know what a crane looks like because there are so few visible today.

Asked what happens if Bass or the other opponent wins, Pratt said he might have to leave for Bentonville because he would no longer regard Los Angeles as a viable place to raise his sons.

He said the city still has the potential to be the greatest place on Earth but must acknowledge what he regards as a current “nightmare.”

He listed basic failures:

• nonfunctioning street lights;
• road repairs taking a year or more;
• potholes damaging vehicles;
• ineffective 311 service;
• insufficient police;
• insufficient firefighters.

He then predicted that several fire-prone locations—transcribed as “Bair,” “Manavville Canyon,” Sunland “to Hunga,” and the Hollywood Hills [some names unclear]—would eventually burn if policy did not change. He called that outcome “guaranteed,” a prediction rather than an established forecast.

Pratt proposed creating helicopter water-dip sites within approximately one mile of homes in vulnerable areas.

He also wants a system allowing access to privately owned swimming pools as emergency water sources.

He said he would negotiate with insurance companies in an effort to restore private insurance availability in Los Angeles and eventually California.

His theory is that a demonstrably stronger firefighting system would make insurers more willing to cover homes.

He proposed more Chinook helicopters used in partnership with Los Angeles County and coordination with the Firehawk fleet used by Los Angeles city and Cal Fire.

Pratt described unavailable insurance as one of the biggest barriers to rebuilding after fires.

Pratt said he wants to get rid of “ULA” [transcript unclear policy shorthand], although he acknowledged a mayor cannot accomplish that alone.

He characterized policies of this kind as “communist type things” that discourage property sales and housing development.

He also said he would strengthen landlords’ position against tenants he characterized as squatters or criminals, complaining that landlords may have to pay approximately $50,000 to induce some tenants to leave.

He promised to stop what he called a “Section 8 scam” so housing assistance goes to veterans and families who genuinely need it instead of people he alleged are committing fraud or dealing drugs.

These statements contain both policy proposals and allegations that require legal and factual verification.

Pratt said that if he loses, Los Angeles is “done.”

He likened the political situation to the film Independence Day, saying the city was facing an invasion comparable to aliens attacking.

He said that even after becoming mayor, he would need to defeat Democratic Socialists of America-backed City Council members electorally and prevent them from returning.

Pratt insisted DSA politicians are not equivalent to traditional Democrats. He said many of his own friends and supporters are Democrats and invoked Bill Clinton as an example of what he considers a conventional Democrat.

The host then offered his own extended anti-socialist argument, explicitly labeling it his opinion. He said the United States was created by people escaping tyranny and seeking religious, economic and individual freedom, and characterized socialism as the most tyrannical system humans have created.

Pratt said even intelligent Los Angeles friends often do not know what DSA is. He described the organization as a “sneak attack” and jokingly compared it to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles villains hiding in sewers: “Shredder and Company.”

The host ended by asking Pratt to imagine completing two four-year terms and explaining to his sons what he had done to save Los Angeles.

Pratt said his answer would be that voters had already enacted laws and he simply enforced them.

He rejected the need to invent a new urban utopia.

His theory of change is sequential:

enforce laws → restore safety → attract investment → restore commerce → create jobs → make families comfortable using parks, beaches and public spaces again.

He said he wants his sons to learn that they can “fight evil.”

Pratt described leaders who permit taxpayers to feel unsafe as evil and said citizens pay substantial taxes only to have government fail them.

He cited both his own burned home and the visible presence of screaming or naked people using drugs as examples of that failure. He alleged that parents tell him children are witnessing public sexual activity by people using methamphetamine.

He said some parents keep children focused on iPads while driving to school to shield them from street scenes, while poorer families without cars cannot avoid the same environments.

His imagined message to his sons was that America already has laws and that his administration’s breakthrough would simply have been: “Let’s enforce them.”

Pratt said restored safety would bring money, businesses and jobs into Los Angeles and could revive Hollywood by making independent artists feel supported and inspired.

He then returned to the fire as the central event giving his campaign personal meaning.

In religious terms, he asked whether God had allowed his house and then his mother’s house to burn so that he would fight the people he holds responsible.

He said he had listened to his mother cry every day for 18 months.

Pratt insisted that he is not pursuing office because he wants a political career but because he believes he has been called to fight what he regards as evil.

He described himself as so attached to Los Angeles that he resisted visiting his wife’s family in Colorado and preferred that they come to Los Angeles.

He closed by saying his opponents were not truly “LA people” in the same sense.

The host thanked Pratt for the interview. Pratt called it a blast and ended: “I’m going all in.”

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “All I do is debate people all day long.”
Context: Pratt said constant adversarial interviews prepared him for the mayoral debate.
Topic: Debate preparation / media scrutiny.

Speaker: Peter, Pratt’s lawyer, as quoted by Pratt
Exact quote: “Spencer, I always have the truth.”
Context: Pratt asked how his lawyer remained calm while arguing with people they believed were dishonest.
Topic: Debate composure / truth as strategy.

Speaker: Fire department representative, as quoted by Pratt
Exact quote: “We have no assets available.”
Context: Pratt said he called seeking resources as fire approached his neighborhood.
Topic: Fire response / resource availability.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “You burn my house down. You burn my parents out.”
Context: Pratt explained why attacks from political figures would not make him abandon the fight.
Topic: Fire loss / political motivation.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “Man, I’m not crazy.”
Context: Pratt said information he attributed to LAFD whistleblowers convinced him his suspicions were not merely fringe theories.
Topic: Whistleblowers / fire investigation.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “I’m the citizen. I’m the angry taxpayer.”
Context: Pratt rejected efforts to define him through a conventional party identity.
Topic: Campaign positioning / political identity.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “that’s my forward operating base because this is a battle against good and evil.”
Context: Pratt described his Airstream and his eight-year “tour of duty.”
Topic: Civic duty / campaign worldview.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “I think they’re all criminals.”
Context: After distinguishing ordinary bureaucratic incentives from more speculative campaign-finance theories, Pratt made a sweeping accusation about actors in the system.
Topic: NGO/city corruption allegations.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “We should be a city. We should be all together making sure the streets are safe. The lights are on. There’s no potholes. The sidewalks are there. It’s that basic.”
Context: Pratt argued that national partisan identity distracts voters from municipal services.
Topic: Municipal governance / political tribalism.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “We should have money shooting out of ATMs. We’re Los Angeles.”
Context: Pratt argued that LA should grow revenue rather than accept chronic scarcity.
Topic: Economic growth / city budget.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “If you live in LA and you’re paying your taxes, you are angry.”
Context: Response to critics describing him as an “angry white guy.”
Topic: Campaign coalition / taxpayer frustration.

Speaker: Unnamed police chief, as quoted by Pratt
Exact quote: “Once you start putting handcuffs on people, watch how many people leave.”
Context: Pratt cited the statement while arguing that visible enforcement would cause some offenders to leave the city.
Topic: Policing / deterrence.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “Every dollar of tax money in the city of LA needs to be on very easy cliffnotes level dashboards so we can track and get results of where all of our tax money is going.”
Context: Pratt proposed public dashboards linking city expenditures to outcomes.
Topic: Government accountability / auditing.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “I don’t need the unions to win. I have the moms. I have the animal lovers.”
Context: Pratt argued his grassroots coalition could overcome institutional union support for Bass.
Topic: Electoral coalition / unions.

Speaker: “Peter Churn/Churnin” [transcript unclear], as quoted by Pratt
Exact quote: “I’m always here to make you smarter, Spencer.”
Context: Pratt said he asked whether he could continue seeking Peter’s advice if elected.
Topic: Hollywood / executive advisers.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “Who cares how many lines that Metro connects to where it could connect to the moon right now, but if drug addicts are smoking fentanyl next to your kid, you’re not going to the moon on it.”
Context: Pratt argued transit safety matters more than network expansion.
Topic: Public transportation / safety.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “People get paid no matter if they’re a failure. It’s not resultsbased.”
Context: Pratt generalized from permitting and sanitation problems to his critique of government incentives.
Topic: Bureaucratic accountability.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “LA needs to be like annoying how many cranes we see for the next eight years.”
Context: Pratt described his goal for dramatic increases in construction.
Topic: Development / permitting / economic growth.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “Like this is Independence Day. The aliens have attacked.”
Context: Pratt used a science-fiction analogy to describe what he sees as the existential stakes of the election.
Topic: Campaign rhetoric / political stakes.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “It’s like Ninja Turtles. They’re in the sewers. They’re like, they’re like Shredder and Company.”
Context: Pratt argued that many voters do not realize the extent of DSA organization in Los Angeles.
Topic: Democratic Socialists of America / campaign rhetoric.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “Thank God America have laws.”
Additional exact line: “Hey, breaking news. Let’s enforce them.”
Context: Pratt imagined explaining his mayoral legacy to his sons.
Topic: Law enforcement / governing philosophy.

Speaker: Spencer Pratt
Exact quote: “I don’t do this to be a politician. I do this to fight evil and this is evil that has taken this beautiful city that I loved.”
Context: Pratt connected his campaign to the destruction of his and his mother’s homes.
Topic: Personal motivation / closing argument.